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  Mark Wastell 
  The Squid's Ear Interview

"Mark Wastell, born 1968 and London based, is a versatile musician who has played a central role in the British and European improvised music scene for thirty years. He has performed and recorded extensively and his varied resume includes projects with Derek Bailey, Phil Durrant, John Butcher, Lasse Marhaug, Rhodri Davies, Simon H. Fell, Burkhard Beins, John Tilbury, Mattin, Tony Conrad, Evan Parker, Tim Barnes, Bernhard Günter, Keith Rowe, John Zorn, Peter Kowald, Joachim Nordwall, Otomo Yoshihide, David Toop, Max Eastley, Hugh Davies, Julie Tippetts, Alan Skidmore, Mike Cooper, Chris Abrahams, Stewart Lee, Clive Bell, Arild Andersen, Jan Bang, Erik Honoré, Maggie Nicols, Will Gaines, Thomas Lehn, Thurston Moore and David Sylvian. Mark has also run the Confront Recordings label since 1996."


Mark Wastell

Mark Wastell is a London-based improviser and composer whose work spans cello, electro-acoustics, and large-scale collaborations, shaped by decades of performance in the UK and international experimental music scenes.


How would you describe music?

Possibly, second only to language, the most fundamental way in which human beings communicate and share emotion?

What is your relationship to music?

It has been my all day, everyday, activity, for as long as I can remember. Other things get in the way of course, but there's never a moment when I'm not thinking about, playing, planning, imagining, or listening to music.

What draws you to the instrument(s) you play, and/or to composing?

As someone who has used various instruments over the years, each, in their unique fashion, help facilitate the best way to convey the emotion or material content I'm wishing to put across. Certain ideas, or approaches to playing, suit different instruments. After my formative years using the cello exclusively, I began to get interested in other sound areas, ones that I knew I couldn't reach with a string instrument, so began the migration in instrumentation, to enable me to do so. I'm always led by the sound I want to make, and choose the instrument accordingly, as opposed to choosing the instrument first, and then wondering what sound I can make with it.

What groups or musical communities have you been part of, and how have they influenced your playing or composing today?

My formative years were rooted in the London/UK improv club scene, initially with the trio IST (with Simon Fell and Rhodri Davies), followed by invitations to join Chris Burn's Ensemble, Derek Bailey's COMPANY and Evan Parker's String Orchestra. At the turn of the millennium I was part of the burgeoning reductionist/lower case scene, performing in groups like The Sealed Knot (with Rhodri and Burkhard Beins), Assumed Possibilities (with Rhodri, Phil Durrant and Chris Burn) and Scotch of St. James (with Tim Barnes). In the middle noughties I'd begun working in more electro-acoustic, lo-fi electronics settings, with groups like +minus (with Graham Halliwell and Bernhard Gunter) and Belaska (with Mattin). Towards the later part of that decade and early the next, I was more attracted to drone soundscapes, working with Oceans of Silver & Blood (with Joachim Norwall), solo tam-tam, in duo with Keith Rowe, Tony Conrad and a quartet with Toshimaru Nakamura, Tomas Korber and Tisha Mukaji. I took a brief sabbatical between 2011 and 2014, performing only occasionally with The Sealed Knot. Since then, re-emerging and engaging with the scene full time, I'm happy in varied and multiple settings, fully embracing what the music throws at me. All of which is informed by what has happened previously.

What musician(s) most influenced your approach to music, and why?

In the early years, as a young, aspiring musician; John Stevens, Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Tony Oxley, Simon Fell, Chris Burn, Phil Durrant, John Butcher. When I'd begun to perform myself, my earliest collaborators; Rhodri Davies, Matt Davis, Burkhard Beins. And from areas further afield; Morton Feldman, Helmut Lachenmann. Each of them have a distinct voice, their own unique way of working, not afraid of pushing boundaries and venturing into the unknown.

Who or what influences you most outside of music, and why?

Visual artists, particularly painters, especially in the early years of my development. They were (are) of equal importance to me as musicians, in shaping how I felt about music and the way in which I wanted to formulate my own sound. How to make 'my art'. I've always seen colour in the same way as I hear sound. Robert Ryman was an enormous early influence, especially during my reductionist period, as was Patrick Heron. Frank Kline. John Latham. Alan Davie. I align with Ryman's story, in that, as an untrained artist, he took a security job at MoMA in New York, to place himself in front of, and amongst those great works. I did likewise, no formal musical education, I learnt by putting myself in front of the music itself, in the club space and concert hall.

What deceased performer(s), improviser(s), or composer(s) would you most like to have a conversation with, and why?

I'd love the opportunity to do that with the folk I had personal relationships with, certainly Derek Bailey, Simon Fell, Will Gaines and Hugh Davies. Even at the time, I knew they were special and they certainly meant a lot to me. But second time around, and with the addition of hindsight, I'd ask a lot more questions. They were such incredible artists, each with a fascinating history. Will was hilarious, a great showman and raconteur, told me once that Miles was "a mean motherfucker" and that Monk had a girlfriend with "a face like a horse". Derek would introduce Will to the audience as "the only person I play with now who's older than me"! Derek was dry, witty, lovely personality. Simon, quite serious most of the time, driven but, like Derek, had that Yorkshire sense of humour that could cut you in two. Hugh, wow, imagine now being able to ask him about working with Stockhausen in the sixties and the formation of Music Improvisation Company. If only I'd done so at the time. He did tell me I should always make provisions to pay my taxes though!

What advice would you give to a young musician entering your field?

Be resilient. Be yourself. Do only what is right for you. Not what you think a colleague or an audience expects, at the detriment of yourself. It may well be easier to 'fit in' with others, to bend and mould to their demands, but like all personal relationships, you only really need to be with the people that lift you up and celebrate you for being you. When I was much younger, just starting out, I was lucky to have a number of performers around me who encouraged me and supported my efforts. Along the way there were others that wanted me to bend to their will, but when that happened, I simply distanced myself from them. Work hard. Keep the energy up. Be open to new things. And make your own opportunities, don't just wait for things to come to you.

What do you hope audiences take away from experiencing your music?

My total commitment, right in that very moment, to the music, and to the musicians I'm with. If I can deliver - without wavering - my full self, and the audience can sense that, then I've achieved what I was there to do.

Where do you see the music you're involved in heading in the coming years?

I can't speak for the music in general, only my contribution within it. If I can keep my interest, and energy to it intact, I'll keep pushing in the right direction. Where that leads to in the future, I don't know. To keep myself abreast of new developments. To remain personally positive generally means positive things happen in return. I'm still up for the challenge.

Where are you currently located or musically associated with?

I live and work (mainly) in London. With that, most of my more frequent colleagues are London based too. We're blessed that the London scene is city wide, rich with diverse content, in a reasonably healthy state and full of incredible musicians. Although, it must be said, almost all of the regular clubs continue to be self-sufficient, musician run endeavours, well below the radar of art organisations, funding bodies and the general public. I continue to make my most regular work with those I've been associated with for many years, like Phil Durrant, John Butcher, David Toop, and Dominic Lash. Recently, although we've circled each other for a good while, I've been blessed the last two or three years to have performed more frequently with Maggie Nicols. And I keep myself open to the work of younger musicians, performing with people like Caius Williams (a double bassist in his mid-twenties), saxophonist Colin Webster and trumpeter Charlotte Keeffe. Internationally, even post-Brexit, I've still been able to maintain existing and develop new relationships. The past year alone, I've played and recorded with Jason Kahn, Dirk Serries, Chris Abrahams, Thomas Lehn, Jan Bang, Erik Honore, and coming soon, I'm guesting with Chicago based trio Haptic, and later in the year, a first time meeting with Mats Gustafsson.

What is your musical education or background?

I discovered my parents record collection when I was about eight years old; Buddy Holly, The Drifters, Nat King Cole, Dwayne Eddy, Mary Wells, Gerry and the Pacemakers, Lord Rockingham's Eleven where firm favourites. Next came the Two Tone/Mod/Ska boom in the UK in 1979 when I was eleven. All of this led to a deeper interest in the Black music scene, Brit-Funk, Lovers Rock, Reggae and Soul. I started going to gigs when I was twelve, I vividly remember the first four concerts I went to where Bad Manners, Level 42, Imagination and The Temptations (not necessarily in that order!). By 1984, as a sixteen year old, I'd found Jazz, like the original Stateside sounds via the mid-eighties Blue Note relaunch, and the young British stuff; Courtney Pine, Orphy Robinson, Andy Sheppard, Steve Williamson, Cleveland Watkiss. I was well served at my local arts centre, they hosted a monthly jazz club and it's here I initially saw and heard the music firsthand, so many amazing musicians like Stan Tracey, Charlie Rouse, Danny Thompson, Paul Dunmall, Julian Joseph, Tommy Smith, Steve Lacy, Mal Waldron, Harry Sweets Edison. By 1988, when I was twenty, I'd graduated to Ronnie Scott's Club and the wider London scene, and it's at venues across the city I got to see so many of the US legends; Elvin Jones, Joe Henderson, Sonny, McCoy, Dizzy, Ornette with Don, Johnny Griffin, George Coleman, Horace Silver, Kenny Burrell, Joe Pass, Dewey Redman, Kenny Drew, Nat Adderley, Curtis Fuller, Woody Shaw, as well as UK based greats like Alan Skidmore, Art Themen, Peter King, Kenny Wheeler. In 1989, during one of those forays into London, I went to a concert featuring Anthony Braxton, Tony Oxley and Evan Parker, and it's here that I broke through the wall and discovered freely improvised music. Soon thereafter I began regularly attending concerts by Derek Bailey, John Stevens, Paul Rutherford, Keith Tippett, Elton Dean, Roger Turner, John Russell, Phil Minton, John Butcher, Phil Durrant, Simon Fell and my whole world opened up. I felt a very deep connection to this way of music making, particularly the direct influence of John Stevens and his theories, and it was at this point, 1992, that I decided I needed to become a musician and apply myself to this way of making sound, creating art and connecting with others.

What are some of your favorite recordings by other musicians or groups?

That list would be incredibly long if I were to include every recording that has touched me deeply over the years, impossible even. For simplicity, in the areas of music discussed in this interview, then Karyobin and A New Distance by the Spontaneous Music Ensemble, Corner to Corner by Evan Parker/John Stevens, One Time by Derek Bailey/John Stevens/Kent Carter, Atlanta by the Evan Parker Trio, Alan Davie/Tony Oxley Duo, Cultural Baggage from Chris Burn's Ensemble and Concert Moves by John Butcher/Phil Durrant/John Russell have been with me consistently for decades and were very influential. And there's never really a day that goes by without playing some Bill Evans.

What are some of your favorite recordings that you have made?

I'm more than happy to listen to my own recordings, it's something that I do very regularly. I'm not one of those that discards something once it is done. I've plenty of favourites, notably the ones by IST with Simon and Rhodri, and my series of solo tam tam recordings. A short live group with Bernhard Gunter and Graham Halliwell, called +minus, made a couple of genre defying albums. More recently, a new group called Wunderkammer, with Jan Bang, Erik Honore, Michael Francis Duch and David Toop, have made a couple of recordings that I'm very proud of. Likewise, two recent CDs by the newly formed trio with John Butcher and Phil Durrant.

What's something you rarely get asked in interviews that you wish people would ask - and how would you answer it?

I've never been asked 'Why do you do it?'. But like breathing and eating, it's essential, I wouldn't last long without it. I can't imagine my life without it.

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